Of course I sent him over to Strictly Average, but for a beginning player, there was a lot there that was way beyond what he is trying to do.
His biggest problem at the moment is luck (or lack of it). Pretty much every single bad thing that could happen to his army HAS happened- troops just not appearing; HQ's getting eaten by the warp, crap like that. He has had some BAD luck.
So please help out; how do you overcome that?
New dice :)
ReplyDeleteI'm not a Daemon player but have played them a lot. There's not much you can do on your first wave other than picking safe spots to come in. The average roll on 2D6 is a 7, so a 7" scatter on average. If he bears that in mind with his placement then it will help determine the better spots to land.
ReplyDeleteAfter that it's all about icons, icons, icons. One player at my LGS plays with no less than 5 icons, another runs around 3. If he's packing enough icons then he should always have a few to come in off of for his later arrivals.
I never use Icons as thy're too expensive at 25 points a pop and you need to buy twice as many as you actually need in case the wrong wave turns up. 5 icons is almost enough points to buy two units of Plaguebearers.
ReplyDeleteThough luck is always a factor, the following points should help.
1) If you use Cavalry and/or Beast units you can land at a safe distance and still be able to assault next turn due to the extended charge range.
2) If you make both waves almost the same then it's much less of a disaster if you get the wrong one.
3) Make sure you take plenty of units with Bolt of Tzeentch (Heralds of Tzeentch on Chariots are the best buy and you can take four of them) as de-meching gun-lines is almost impossible without them.
4) Don't forget that you can still 'run' after you land from deep-striking so can spread out a bit to avoid blasts and template weapons.
They're about the best 'simple' tips I can give the guy without needing to look at his list and tweak it for him.
There are quite a few articles on my blog he can read and not all of them are aimed at the experienced player so he might find something useful.
http://gmortschaotica.blogspot.com/search/label/Chaos%20Daemons
Same reason I don't use deep strike anymore... I won't built an army that depends on luck.
ReplyDeleteIt is the nature of the army. When your deployment depends on luck you kind of have to roll with it. You will eventaully scatter badly and lose that big bad or must have unit. It is a high risk/high reward army. Once you realize that it is really fun to play.
ReplyDeleteI have a pure Khorne army and it is fairly simple, deep strike in close and kill everything!
Icons are not a must, but give security. I like 2-3, but if they aren't on the table then they aren't useful. I like the security for my second wave, but the extra bodies might be better sometimes.
I like the pure pantheon list, but if you want to win then just use Fateweaver and Blood Crushers. That is what everyone seems to do.
Have to admit that was one of the more difficult things with this army... ALWAYS deep striking is a fairly big disadvantage in the current rule set since you can only run/shoot/get shot to pieces in that one turn you are landing more or less... Bad scatter roll, bad run roll to scatter after the drop can just kill the piece/unit or make it trivial for the other guy to template you to death... And with Mechanized forces being the norm in this edition it really limits the useful items in the Daemons book... Shame the Daemons and Chaos Marine books aren't able to combine :-) Might be a bit powerful, but...
ReplyDeleteI would take 2 icons, one in each wave. Especially if you are running multiple units of Blood Crushers.
ReplyDeleteDon't be afraid to drop your units into terrain, especially Plaguebearers.
I play Deathwing, and my deep strike number is 9". If I drop 9" away from something, there is a reasonable chance that I will not hit it. That being said, don't be afraid to drop right next to someone in an effort to intimidate them. Sometimes it doesn't pay off, but the risk is what makes playing an army like this rewarding. Faster units (Monstrous Creatures with wings, beasts, and jump infantry) can be placed farther away or into terrain for added safety. Tougher units and multi-wound units (Daemon Princes, Greater Daemons, Blood Crushers, etc.) can be placed a little more aggressively to draw attention away from your weaker units, and soak up some wounds.
I'm currently using the following,
ReplyDelete2000 Pts - Chaos Daemons Roster
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 95 pts)
1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 95 pts (Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 95 pts)
1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 95 pts (Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 95 pts)
1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 95 pts (Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 95 pts)
1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 95 pts (Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)
Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh (6#, 180 pts)
6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 180 pts
Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh (6#, 180 pts)
6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 180 pts
Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh (6#, 180 pts)
6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 180 pts
Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (10#, 160 pts)
10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 160 pts
Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (10#, 160 pts)
10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 160 pts
Troops: Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5#, 75 pts)
5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 75 pts
Troops: Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5#, 75 pts)
5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 75 pts
Fast Attack: Flesh Hounds of Khorne (10#, 185 pts)
9 Flesh Hounds of Khorne @ 185 pts
1 Karanak, Hound of Vengeance
Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 140 pts)
1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 140 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Bolt of Tzeentch)
Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 140 pts)
1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 140 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Bolt of Tzeentch)
Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 140 pts)
1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 140 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Bolt of Tzeentch)
Total Roster Cost: 1995
As for 'Waves' I'd drop the four Heralds, two lots of Bloodletters and one of the Daemon Princes first. The second wave would then be 2 Daemon Princes, 3 lots of Fiends and the Flesh Hounds. That way we should be able to pop a few transports while giving our opponent the worry about choosing between neutralising the shooting or stopping the Bloodletters before they get a chance to assault something, with the Daemon Prince being a worry in both areas. Then our 2nd wave should consist of our dangerous close combat units ready to assault the (hopefully by now) disembarked units on turns three and onwards and our objective holding units to.....well....hold objectives.
Should we be unfortunate enough to get our non preferred wave then at least we have two shooty units and 48, T4 wounds worth of assault units for our opponent to deal with before they get in his face on (hopefully) turn two.